剧里有一对双胞胎,zelda和zoe,并且提出了一个简单粗暴的说法。世上的人分为两种,一类是zelda,总是兴致勃勃,乐观开朗,天塌了也不怕;另一类是zoe,总是郁郁寡欢,敏感内向,还有点愤世嫉俗。
马男波杰克无疑是后一种,而且还是后一种中最糟的那种,自暴自弃。觉得自己很糟糕,于是想尽办法让自己感觉好一点,无论做什么似乎都不对,只会让事情变得更糟,用酒精毒品性爱麻醉自己,破坏好友Todd的事业机会让他留在自己身边,试图用追求真爱来振作自己。但每一次似乎都失败了,最后朋友反目,爱人离开,自己还是不快乐,因为自己从来没有喜欢过自己。
你在他身边,也会觉得他自私自利,尖酸刻薄,害怕做出承诺,并不是一个受欢迎的朋友,也不是一个合格的爱人。剧里慢慢交代了波杰克的童年家庭背景,于是你觉得一切都可以理解了。他的父亲冷漠严厉,母亲因他的出生而憎恨他。从小波杰克就生活在孤独和被憎恨里,心里埋下深深的悲伤。长大后进入了好莱坞,在90年代成功主演了一部广受欢迎的情景喜剧,评论界觉得这部剧媚俗不堪,但观众却出奇的喜欢。如今剧集结束,他有了钱,有了名,成了一个过气的好莱坞明星,过着颓废自毁的生活,试图要重新振作,从为出版社写部自传开始。故事《马男波杰克》就是从此作为剧集的起点。
如果你也是zoe那种类型的,你会在马男波杰克身上看到自己的影子,你会很容易喜欢这部剧,如果你是乐观开朗的zelda,可能大部分时间你都在骂这他妈的在矫情什么。所以判断你会不会喜欢,要不要追这部剧,只要花三分钟,看一下《马男波杰克》第一季第一集的片头,自然就会作出判断。
片头介绍了马男波杰克作为过气明星,接受电台采访,先是大言不惭的说了一些非常政治不正确的话,说自己把车停在了残疾人停车区,醉驾,说脏话。接着谈到自己90年代的成名作,一只单身马收养了三个孤儿,温馨幸福生活在一起的故事。接着极其深刻的解释了大家为什么喜欢看媚俗低劣的温馨喜剧。
“对大部分人来说,人生就是尿道被狠狠猛击了一下。在度过漫长的一天,尿道被猛踢之后,人们回家有时候只想看一下彼此相亲相爱的剧,在剧里,不管发生什么,半小时结束,人们还是会团结友爱。”只有极其悲观失望,愤世嫉俗的人,才会说出这样的话。马男波杰克就是这样一个人,
看这部剧的感受,混杂交替着荒谬,讽刺,搞笑,悲伤,绝望,温情,感伤,无奈。
一开始是荒谬。这是个人类和拟人化的动物共同生活的设定世界。马男波杰克是一个过气明星,他的经纪人是一只叫卡罗莱公主的粉色女猫,他有一个叫花生酱先生的演艺竞争对手是只黄色拉布拉多狗。想要出版他的自传的企鹅出版社的老板是一只有三个孩子的企鹅爸爸。除此之外还充满了鳄鱼主播,河马主持,犀牛杂志编辑,波斯猫大亨,母鸡小姐,奶牛餐厅服务员等等。
接着看下去你会发现这个荒诞的世界可能比很多粉饰美化现实的电视剧都要真实的多。这个剧的一个特色就是不遗余力的讽刺娱乐界。比如讽刺了美国的流行明星文化,把女童星变成了一个贩卖性感,吸毒酗酒,浮华空洞的人。比如讽刺了观众只关心名人的细枝末节娱乐八卦,根本不在乎社会政治更加严肃复杂的社会议题。比如讽刺了传媒推出了只为收视率不在乎任何意义的白痴娱乐节目。片中也出现了很多对现实原型的致敬或者恶搞的细节,充满趣味。
讽刺是带着愤怒让人有力量的情绪。其实这部剧的主题还是波杰克深深被掩埋起来的悲伤,和人生总体现实的无奈。剧要做的,就是一步一步挖出他的情绪。为了写自传,他雇佣了一个影子写手,diane,一个越南裔的姑娘,名校毕业,有写作才华,但还是不够。Diane是了解波杰克的人,因为她也有一个糟糕的家庭,了解波杰克心底的孤单,知道他的尖刻自私的外表下掩藏着的自我厌恶。波杰克因此认为自己喜欢diane,但他只是喜欢一个了解自己的人。
Diane的老公是花生酱先生。如果说diane是典型的zoe,那么狗男就是典型的zelda,乐观开朗到了令人发指的程度。他们的结合开始会让人疑惑。花生酱先生,一开始会让人觉得傲慢,发生在他身上的一切都那么好,永远看到的是积极的一面,他的人生哲学是“寻找意义并不会有助于人的快乐。”diane心底,还是想要做有意义的事情,不希望自己35岁的时候,人生还是碌碌无为的度过。也许她想的是“寻找快乐并不是人生的意义。”但是在diane受挫的时候,在面对严酷现实的打击之后,只有狗男这样的阳光,包容,虽然不理解但毫无保留毫无条件的支持和爱,才是真正能够温暖diane受伤心灵的人。
波杰克一直没有找到那个完全接受他了解他爱他的那个另一半。他的恋爱都是失败的。他年轻时候的真爱,已经找到另一半安顿了下来。爱上他的人,总是被他的自毁倾向所推开所伤害。到最后,波杰克是非常孤独的,独自一个人面对意识的深渊,时时堕入童年黑暗的记忆,往日对友人赫比背叛的愧疚,成名后又被抛弃的无价值感。
波杰克成名之前的朋友赫比,成名后与波杰克反目,临终也没有原谅波杰克的背叛。赫比得了癌症,他的死亡荒诞真实到令人唏嘘。他战胜了癌症,却死于车祸。这就是我们生活的真实的世界。没有大团圆结局,不是每个人的死都有意义,很多生命的结束就是莫名其妙未完成。赫比到死都没有原谅波杰克,这就是现实,只有电视剧里才有完美的宽恕。
《马男波杰克》两季都完结了。第二季的结尾,他仍然是孤独悲伤的一个人,并且会长期的孤独悲伤下去。他开始跑步,累到肺炸。一个每日坚持跑步的猴叔说了非常非常哲理的话。
“每天坚持,就会容易一点点。困难的部分是你每天都要坚持。但只要坚持,就真的会一天天容易一点。”
即便现在孤单,悲伤,失望,也要坚持。也许真的就会容易一点点。这是每一个马男的自我救赎。没有奇迹会发生,不会有人从天而降来拯救你,只有靠自己,每天拯救自己一点点。
我有多无聊/喜欢这个…… 随手渣翻采访。
原文:
http://www.vulture.com/2015/07/bojack-horseman-season-two-raphael-bob-waksberg.html?mid=twitter_vultureI've been thinking a lot about episode 11, where BoJack hooks up with Charlotte's teenage daughter Penny. It's like, Oh, you're maybe even worse than I thought.
[Pause.] Yeah. He did some pretty shitty things in that episode. It's very much one step forward, two steps back; three steps forward, four steps back; eight steps forward, maybe only five steps back. One of the early conversations I had with Michael Eisner [who owns BoJack backing company Tornante] was about what kind of show this is, what we're saying about BoJack. And he said, "Oh, the idea of this character is that he goes right up to that line and doesn't cross it," and I said, "No, what's interesting is that he does cross the line, and then he crosses back, and then he crosses again." You're kind of rooting for him, but you're kind of not.
Are there stories where the writers' room conversation becomes, "Is this maybe too far"?
We were really precise with episode 11. There was a lot of talk of how unclothed the characters would be, what step in the process is [Charlotte] walking in on. So, yes, there are things that feel like they're too far — but sometimes it's important to push yourself onto that ledge. When I first pitched the episode, it was that BoJack goes to New Mexico and gets involved with the family, and he sleeps with Charlotte. And as we were breaking the episode, someone had the idea of, what if it's the daughter? And at first we were all like, "No no no, we can't do that." But the more we thought about it, the more it made sense — and the more it was in our heads, and it felt almost cowardly not to go that far … I'm sure we lost people over that episode. But that's okay; it's not for everybody.
I was sort of torn about that episode because we heard Kelsey even say, "BoJack is stunted," and we know he's sort of unable to mature. But also, why would anyone think it's okay for a grown-up to be someone's date to a prom? There's something really fucked up about that in the first place.
Yeah, BoJack doesn't see himself as a grown-up. He doesn't think he's a 50-year-old man. And because he's a cartoon horse, our audience doesn't think that either. So it's fun to remind them: He is a grown-ass adult. He's 51. He doesn't get how inappropriate that is.
Let's talk a little about Wanda. How early in the character's development did Lisa Kudrow sign on?
She took the part because she read episode two and thought it was funny, so we knew who Wanda was at that point, and we knew what her arc was going to be. But then when you get Lisa Kudrow and you hear her say lines, she's very fun to write for. That affected the way we wrote the character going forward ...
She was coming in [for table-reads] while The Comeback was airing, so I got to geek out with her. I love that show — you can see that show's DNA on BoJack if you're looking, and not even closely.
Wanda's mulch joke really caught me by surprise. When you're breaking that episode, how did the decision arise to use a brick joke?
You know how Broadway composers have their "trunk songs"? I have a handful of bits that are sort of my trunk bits — going about in life, you have a moment and you think, Oh, I'd like to use that in something. Like the movie-star speech Rutabega gives Princess Carolyn: I've given similar speeches to friends who are heartbroken. The Zoe/Zelda thing in season one came from a Tia and Tamera observation I've had for a while. So the mulch joke is a similar variation in a brick joke that I love — but we had to change it a bit because the original joke involves animals, and it wouldn't work for our show. But I've had this idea for a while, that I want to do a story where there's a question about a relationship, and this joke hammers in those ideas of, is this someone I want to be with? And then later on they deliver the second half of it, and it works as a metaphor for everything: Oh, there's more to this person than I realized. It's a nice reveal.
You mentioned that you couldn't use an animal-oriented joke. Is that how this season's episode "Chickens" came about? How rigid is the show bible about which animals exist?
We're working on it as we go along. But very early on we decided that all the animals are animal-people. No one has pets. There's no little birds flying from tree to tree — it's a world full of Goofys, not Plutos, to use a Disney analogy. In season one I was really hesitant to depict meat-eating in any way. But then someone pitched a joke with a cow waitress serving steak and being really offended. And it was funny, so we put it in, but then it raises questions. So in the back of my mind I knew, somewhere in season two we're going to have to explain where meat comes from. And the horrifying answer is it comes from animals. And what's really funny about that is that it's kind of horrifying in the real world, too, but we try not to think about it.
In season one we didn't want to show a lot of underwater animals because we thought, Well, they live underwater, they can't breathe air. But then we had Tom Jumbo Grumbo the whale, and Sextina Aquafina the dolphin, and Neal the seal, so we thought, Okay, well we can have mammals because they can breathe air. But still no fish. And then we had a joke about an electric eel with a Taser, so we chucked that rule about the fish. So now we have Abe the Catfish with his water bottle, and now you see a lot more aquatic creatures.
Season one felt like it was largely about depression, and this season felt a lot more like it was about loneliness and the quest for connections. Do you think the show believes in love?
I guess what you're asking is, like, do I believe in love. The show believes what I make it believe, right?
But you don't believe in animal-human hybrids walking the earth, and the show does. There's some distinction there, no?
I think the show believes in love but it's very suspicious of happy endings — that fade to black, you got the guy, the girl, the prince rescued you from the dragon, and we don't need to see anything else. Like anything, it's hard and it takes work, and you gotta do it every day. That's the message of season two.
[...] You could be with the perfect person but still, every day, part of you is thinking, Could I do better? Is this what I'm doing? And then other days it's, I'm a total mess, how could anyone deign to tolerate me? I'm so lucky to have this person and feel so connected, and we get each other and fit in like puzzle pieces. I don't think anyone feels that way all the time. Or maybe some people do? But I'm not hoping for that in my life, I'm not expecting that. I think expecting that leads to madness. And if I can have a TV show where I don't posit that that is the goal, if I can push out a message about love through my art, that's what it would be: a small asterisk saying,"It doesn't always work this way," in a sea of stories saying, "I was miserable because my boyfriend was bad, but then I found a boyfriend who was good and now I'm happy forever."
So what might we be able to look forward to in a season three?
You're stressing me out. I read everything [people write about BoJack], and people have been very kind, and getting what we do. But it terrifies me because now we're at the top of the roller coaster, and now the backlash begins. So, what are my predictions for season three? It's that everyone's going to hate it because it's not like season two, or everyone's going to hate it because it's just like season two. That's my prediction for what all future seasons will be, or anything else I do from now on. I've hit my peak, I've finally gotten acceptance for my strange little horse baby, and now that I've gotten acceptance, the pitchforks come out.
My current state is simultaneous jubilation and terror. How wonderful, I'm being accepted for the weirdo that I am — and it's only a matter of time before they see the weirdo that I really am. It's too good. I'm very suspicious. It feels like a prank! I feel like I'm in She's All That and it's a dare, and the whole world has agreed: "Let's make this guy think we like his show, but actually it's just a bet and he's just a kid with glasses." Is that the end of She's All That?
No, it has a happy ending. You're thinking of Carrie.
Oh, that reminds me of my favorite joke from the season that got cut for time. In episode six, where Todd and Mr. Peanutbutter are talking to their accountant, and he's telling them they don't have any money left. The accountant says, "You're more in the red than Carrie on prom night." And the original line back was Todd saying, "You know, my friends say I'm a Carrie but I think I'm more of a Miranda."
附:这季最重要的对话之一:
Mr. Peanutbutter: “You’re a millionaire movie star with a girlfriend who loves you, acting in your dream movie. What more do you want? What else could the universe possibly owe you?!”
BoJack: “I…want to feel good about myself. The way you do. And I don’t know how. I don’t know if I can.”
渣翻开始:
我一直都在回想BoJack和Charlotte还是青少年的女儿Penny搞上的第11集。就像是,“啊,你好像比我以为的还要差劲”。
[停顿] 对。这一集他做了一些比较屎的事情。往前走一步,往后退两步;往前走三步,往后退四步;往前走八步,然后可能只退个五步。我和Michael Eisner早期谈论这个剧到底是什么样、把BoJack写成什么样的时候,他说“想法就是面对界限,这个角色会走到界限前,但不会跨过去”。而我说,“不,有意思的是他会跨越那条界限,但他会跨回来,然后又再跨过去”。你既有些挺他,又不太。
有没有“这是不是太过火了”的对话?
我们很清楚11集应该如何。谈论了很多角色脱了多少,Charlotte撞到了哪一步。是,有些地方可能让人感觉太过了,但有时候逼自己跃上刀锋很重要。最开始我pitch这一集的时候,是BoJack去新墨西哥和这一家人待一起,然后他和Charlotte睡了。后来有人想到,如果是女儿呢?一开始我们的反应都是“不不不,不能那么做”。但越多考虑这个主意,它就越make sense——它越停留在我们脑海中,就越让我们觉得不那么做的话太窝囊了。。。那一集肯定让我们失去了一些观众。但没什么,(这个剧)不是所有人的菜。
我对那一集有些纠结,因为连Kelsey都说BoJack停止发育了,我们也知道他有点无法成熟起来。不过,怎么会有人觉得一个大人可以当prom date?那一点真是太琱乱了。
是,BoJack不把自己当成年人看待。他不觉得自己是个50岁的男人。由于他是匹卡通马,观众也不那么觉得。所以提醒他们这一点很好玩:他是他妈的成年人。他51岁了。他不明白那非常不恰当。
(省略Lisa Kudrow部分)
你提起过有一个动物向的梗没能用到。那是不是这季“Chickens”这集的来由?这个剧对于哪些动物可以存在有多死板?
我们是走几步看几步。但最初我们就确定了所有的动物都是动物人。没人养宠物。没有从一棵树飞到另一棵树的小鸟——用迪斯尼类比的话,这是个充满着高飞们(而不是布鲁托们)的世界。第一季的时候我对于任何表现吃肉的(情节)充满顾虑,但有人提议了一个关于女牛待端上牛排而觉得很被冒犯的笑话。还挺好笑,所以我们用了,但它引发了一些问题。在内心某个地方,我知道,第二季我们会得解释肉是哪儿来的。而可怕的答案就是来自动物。好笑的是,在真实世界那其实也有些可怕,只是我们尽量不去想它。
第一季里我们没想设定太多水下生物,因为我们觉得,他们生活在水下,呼吸不了空气。但后来有了鲸鱼Tom Jumbo Grumbo,海豚Sextina Aquafina和Neal the seal,所以又想,好吧,可以有哺乳动物因为他们能呼吸空气。但还是不能有鱼。然后我们又有了个带电枪的电鳗的梗,所以鱼这条规定就也抛弃了。现在我们有自带水瓶的Abe the Catfish,你能看到多了很多水生物了。
第一季感觉大体上是讲抑郁,而这季更像是说孤独和寻觅connections。你觉得这个剧相信爱吗?
你问的其实大概是,我是否相信爱。这部剧相信我让它相信的,对吧?
但你不相信动物和人的合体们在世上活动,而这部剧却有。还是有些区别的,不是吗?
我想这部剧是相信爱的,但对happy ending持怀疑态度——屏幕变暗,你得到了那个男人,那个女孩,王子把你从龙那儿解救出来,然后我们不需要再看到接下来任何其他的那种。这像世间任何事一样,很难,需要花费很大力气,还需要每天都去努力。这就是第二季的message。
也许和你在一起的是你的真命天子,但每天你仍然会想,”我是不是能找到更好的?我现在在做什么啊?“而另一些时候则是,”我就是个烂摊子,怎么会有人能忍受我?我能有现在这个让我觉得如此心连心的人真是太幸运了,我们互相理解,像七巧板一样契合“。我觉得没有人会一直那么想。还是说也许有的人会?但至少我是不期望我能那样,我并不期待那样。我觉得期望会把人弄疯。如果我能做一部不提倡那是最终目标的电视剧,如果我能通过我的作品阐述关于爱的讯息,它会是:在海量的讲“我之前很悲惨,因为我的男朋友不好,但我找到了一个好的男朋友,现在我永远幸福了” 的故事中,有一个小小的星号(*)说“事情并不总会这样发展”。
那第三季里我们可以期待什么呢?
你给我太大压力了。我读了所有(BoJack的评论),大家都很好心,懂我们所做的。但这让我感到害怕,因为我们现在处于过山车的顶端,现在是backlash开始的时候了。所以,我对第三季的预期?就是所有人都会讨厌它,因为它和第二季不一样;或者,所有人都会讨厌它,因为它和第二季一模一样。我对所有之后的季和之后我的所有作品的预期都是这样。我已经抵达顶端,我终于凭我奇怪的小马匹获得了认可,而获得认可后,该是叉子出来了。
我的现状是欣喜与恐惧并存。“太棒了,我的weirdo本性被接受了”——“他们认清我到底是什么样的weirdo只是时间问题”。事情太顺利了。我很心疑。感觉像是恶作剧一样!我觉得我像是在“She’s All That”里,这只是个赌,而整个世界都商量好了“我们让这个人以为我们喜欢他的剧,但实际上这只是个赌,他只是个戴眼镜的小孩。”那是She’s All That的结局吧?
不,那是个happy ending。你指的是Carrie。
哦,让我想起来了这季里因为时间问题被切掉的我最喜欢的一个梗。第六集里,Todd和Mr. Peanutbutter跟会计谈话的时候,他跟他们说他们没有钱了。会计说:“你们比prom night的Carrie还要血红。”本来台词是Todd说:“你知道吗,我朋友们都说我是个Carrie,但我觉得我更像Miranda。”
第一季已经打了五星,没想到第二季更加好看,怎么办,五星不够啊抱头!这个剧切开了,里面都是黑的,太真实了甚至笑不出来,特别好看。
最后几集真好看啊,哭成狗。为什么丧的时候那么喜欢马男,因为觉得有人和自己一样丧,比自己还丧,比自己还倒霉,又或者他那么丧,可是过得还不差嘛,那我应该也不会太烂。又或者,看剧也只是逃避。太多电影电视都说,丢下一切跑掉吧,豁出去破罐子破摔吧,大半夜开车去海边吧,闯人家婚礼吧,
哼了一天「Back to the 90s,I was in a very famous TV show...」
啊为什么动画片都开始这么虐心了呀!季终直接泪目!金毛狗好暖 princess Carolyn人生呕像
真心想不到看完之后发现Diane和mrPeanutButter才是最温暖的一对
It gets easier. Every day, it gets a little easier, but you have to do it everyday. That's the hard part.
it does get easier! everyone needs a todd, princess carolyn or mr peanutbutter.
这就是所谓的" 揭穿好莱坞的虚伪本质"吧。
没第1季那么颓丧了。但就像一个末期病人,以为他好点了其实并没有;只是每天都得继续过下去,所以渐渐也就无所谓了。I do hope you find ways to be happy.
这是我去年最爱的动画新剧了,这次第二季开始追溯波杰克的童年生活了,永远得不到母亲的肯定,这样的生活让他彻底掩盖住了内心。。。。。个人评价:A。
第一季时还觉得mr peanutbutter挺傻逼的 现在只想嫁给他
致郁良药
每个人都既遗憾又烦人
倒数那几话直接被虐哭。太喜欢狗狗了,我不需要问你为什么,不想让你的负罪感加重,不希望你再逃避,只希望你还爱我跟我回家。
"It gets easier. Every day it gets easier, but you gotta do it everyday. That's the hard part."PS:我要嫁一个金毛犬!
ep10-11差点看到抑郁情绪爆发(和当年看Louie一样),好在季终看到超级大暖男PeanutButter和“作”了半季的Diane近在咫尺的电话还有Todd和BoJack有点诡异的友谊才得以释怀>> 本季最唏嘘的是哈利波特来客串的那一集,Lisa的加盟最可爱。
It gets easier. Every day, it gets a little easier. But you gotta do it every day. That's the hard part. But it does get easier.
抹完眼泪,早上还要6点爬起来上班呢
It gets easier. Everyday it gets a little easier. But you have to do it everyday. That's the hard part. But it does get easier.
這季看得边哭边笑 但BJ依舊是個禽兽 本来电影是本色演出 演着演着又变成胡闹小马 BJ再次三观尽碎 编剧请大力虐金毛不要停(但金毛说他是拉布拉多) 陶德有抖M潜质 戴安作为唯一正常人终于被逼疯了 越来越喜欢公主 虽然公主很爱小钱钱 但从没出卖自己的幸福 而且作为队友每次都神助攻 不像其他那些坑货